Outdoor WecK Courses

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Why do people still do these courses ? They are the biggest waste of time money and braincells. Why pay all that coin to get taught by gumbys. I was naieve and thought it would be cool to do a rec course, how wrong i was. 80% of the 3rd year students that were instructing us and suposible teaching us how to get better at kayaking were cake and could bearly roll and some were so out of shape they looked like they should be working in a pie shop.
Theres heaps of wicked experinced dudes that could teach you kayaking,rock,mountain,raft yarda yarda whatever in a week or 2 not 3 long years like those rec clowns. And people do you know what a dipolma or degree in outdoor rec means overseas, jackshit. It doesn't take 3 years to guide a raft, work on a glacier teach kids at summer camp etc.
It's all a big conspiracy, Any thoughts ?

enjoying.it's picture

dude obviously thinks there is a vast difference with such a short and decisive answer.

So going back to the pies; does having consumed more pies than one can burn off limit your ability to be an instructor? as it didnt by the example above limit the ability to coach.

stu1's picture

well thats the most @!#$ ive heard in a while. legally there is no difference in responsability between an imstructor, coach, guide, teacher or club leader if the @!#$ does end up in the fan. morally there appears to be no difference either, as most people working in the outdoors, no matter what designation the ascribe to themselves, seem to take their responsabilities toward client safety and learning development seriously.
I am certainly not trying to pay out anyone, I value the help I have received from both the instructors and coaches i have had over the years, Mick and John are both top 'helpers' in my books.

todd's picture

Well Stu, there is actually a difference as far as I can see! That is in terms of safety for there students/clients! I believe that when you are instructing you have more responsibility to look after the safety of your students and with Coaching you have a lot less responsibility for their safety. Where did ëvastlyí come from? Have a think about that one boys! Iím sure Mick H would be pleased to explain this to you as I have seen him in both roles. Donít be so quick to jump on someone just so you can get satisfaction from paying them out!

kayneo's picture

Been wondering the same....But now I over it. Seems to me that there have been enough people poked and proded at by this guy to get to the point where there is little credability in his comments. Dont worry about it and get on with using this forum as it was designed to be used...To enhance the knowledge and access to information by the recreational paddler.

mikedawson's picture

Ride on Johann,
Man i wish i could be a coach or maybe it was a instructer hang on a sec i can decide because they are the SAME thing. Maybe "dude" could help us work out the difference Johann cause he seems like he knows
Peace;
Mike

enjoying.it's picture

I was thinking along similar lines stu.

On the other hand i am not doing a degree in recreation, covering the subtle differences between a coach and an instructor. If 'dude' could please inform me of the differences so i could be enlightened that would be great, also does your degree in recreation mean you have more fun on the river, isn't that what recreation is??(or is it WECKREATION?)

roger1's picture

Jim this disscussion is getting out of hand. Its up to me to tell you that the system sucks.
Here we have un experienced paddlers getting certs. to say I am a gumby that went to polytec to mess around and now I think I can paddle. I know first hand that some people that are getting these quals. are @!#$. And Uni clubs are ehhhhhhhhhh. And I just want to say NZOIA assesors well where are they paddling every weekend. Kayaking is evolving faster than the weather changes. there is no right or wrong way to teach but some ways work better than others for different people. Then once a basic skill is tought it is up to the paddler to evovle there own style because there is no right style.
Any way to sum it up whatch out for salmon

stu1's picture

interested to hear how coaching is so vastly different from instructing. both are teaching and enhancing skills of individuals, both involve both learner and knowledged teachers, both can operate at a beginner or at an elite level.its more sematics that anything, but alot of outdoor egos like the sobriquet instructor.
interesting that olymic level competators use 'mere' coaches to perfect themselves.
I know highly competeant people who describe themselves as either an instructor (eg Mick) or coach (eg snooky) and value the help and skills that they have each imparted. There's little difference as far as I can see.

tim1's picture

Brent,

Are you for real? I don't think I've ever come across someone so intent on offending as many people as you have!

Your ill-informed comments on the AUCC fuljames incident at the start of the year could be potentially damaging and hurtful to many people. Take a second before you write your next entry and think about what you are doing before you do it.

To all the other users of the website I have a question, Has any ever met this "Brent" guy? If so is he as ignorant as he presents himself on these comments pages? I am seriuosly wondering if he really exists or is someones sick idea of a joke.

Any comments would be interesting.

Cheers, Tim

kayneo's picture

Yeep I agree. I also think that there is no course of this type that will make you into a hot boater. They are there to give you the basics and then it is up to you to get out there and make what they taught you into a base that anything may well be possible. All those experienced instuctors and paddlers out there were all learners at one stage and none expected a course was going to make them good without a whole load of work in their own time.

kage's picture

A good balance is needed between going out and paddling frequently/getting lots of experience and doing an instruction course and learning the right techniques and rescue skills.
there are pros and cons of either view, so it pays to get the best of both. no amount of course time can replace being out there doing it hard and frequently, but well experienced instructors who have been in the industry for 10 or more years have alot of skills and techniques to pass on.
get your butts in your boats and onto the water...

kayneo's picture

Go and read the MSA report about all this. Will not be long til we all need a qual that they going to set!!!!!!! Quals will be compulsary. Among other things...Read it

kayneo's picture

Sometimes 10 years and far too much money.... But sometimes there are those that find the talent during a multipursuit course. They thought that bush or rock would be their thing but Kayaking was a natural in. How many instuctors and guides wanted to be just that during school......Those that are did you think that you would earn a bit more money??? No matter how we got into it once in we gotta strive to be excellent therefore we dont have to worry about this type of problem occuring. Everyone would learn and be safe.

ian1's picture

Todd,
I'm not tim , I go under my on name and email address because the care factor is right up there whilst arguing with Outdoor Wreckers. I agree totally with all the Oaks saying it's super expensive, it's a scame and especially Garys comment about instrctors. but maybe I am them as well, but then maybe I'm everyone and I'm just having a conversation with my schizaphrenic self. I could be you todd hassling myself to try and make my self thought up freind todd look cool.Only dude i don't want to be is cuz, he sounds a bit tunnel visioned almost like hes sat on a big 12 inch recyclable outdoor rec dildo and is rotating violently on it far to fast. Cuz people get into the industry different ways, for some individuals it doesn't take 3 years and 10 grand.

todd's picture

nice one Ian waterhouse, tim is very original

steve5's picture

Yea, and if you hadn't have come down here you wouldn't have met Katie!!! Haha!
Bigs ups!

eli's picture

Dear fellow forum users,
I like many students have asked myself these questions and many like them?
I believe that to get jobs in the industry it is all about who you know and what they think of you. So if you are in an environment that has so called ëfantastic staffí and that know lots of other people in the industry you are in the right place. Then you have to be able to show them that you are competent and have the skills and knowledge too make it in the industry. You can do this basically two ways. The first is by doing the ëhard yardsí and doing the learning (you will also have the respect of your peers this way). The second is by being a brown nose or @!#$ licker (no respect from your peers) or a combo of the first and second ways (a little respect). Please note that there is a major difference between a brown nose @!#$ licker and a student who has genuinely good rapport with just about all people they come across, not just those in the position of power e.g. tutors/lecturers. This industry is about relationships.

Some of benefits are that you can get ahead in the industry If you can manage to develop a positive rapport with the tutors what ever way you choose too(if you choose the second way you are taking the risk of being remembered as a brown nose @!#$ licker and this could effect your future reputation and/or aspirations). You will probably learn somethingís more quickly e.g. if you take rafting you will learn how to guide a raft more quickly but miss out on that customer/client interaction or social skills that is fundamental to the that industry. On the same line you can make heaps of contacts in the industry through your institution (networking) if you have the social skills.

Some of the disadvantages are that you could develop a reasonable size loan and you will have problems paying it back in NZ as the pay rate for outdoor instructors/guides is pretty low even in management positions, if you are lucky enough to get a job as one of those ëfantastic staffí at one of the many tertiary institutions full time then you have a little better chance of paying back those loans! For your information if you have a loan of $20,000 you have to be earning $30,000 a year to even start paying back any principle if you pay it back at the government imposed rate. And the longer you leave it the bigger itís going to get! (Itís a good lifestyle until you wake up and smell the coffee and get you loan balance from the IRD).

Just some of the ideas that are out there.

How are the loans of those instructors/guides that have been in the industry less than five years? What do the employers out there think of NZOIA (what do you think Donald C.)? And what do people think about the ethics of the economic model taking priory in Outdoor education today?

ian1's picture

Mate,

your pages of waffle is exactly the point that the anti reccers are trying to make. Not twenty years ago, but ten years ago if you wanted to work in the outdoor industry you went and did it, the pay wasn't flash and it sill isn't. It is the introduction of outdoor rec courses though NZ fine institutions that has started this massive push towards an over qualified NZ, with the pure purpose of making money.

Shut down all this courses, if you won't to work in the industry then the industry should train you. Just like it was 10 years ago when the guides were 10 times better and had ten times as much fun, because the courses hadn't shoved all this bulshit down your throats and landed you 50 squillion dollars in debt.

Doesn't mattter if you have a diploma, masters PHd, or are a professor of raft guiding, a piece of paper doesn't mean @!#$!!!

timmy's picture

NZIOA is only the recognised standard- by most people anyway. Many of the Courses by the time you finish them the aim is to be at the same or at a higher level of NZOIA, Also at present Poly tecs havnt been able to include NZOIA assessments as part of the course, due to NZIOA rules or somthing I dont know to much about it. Also for many of the Degree students, their sole aim in life is not to be come a paddling guide or what have you but to move into areas of the industry where you need more than just kayaking or climbing skills, you need to know how to run maybe a business and some adventure therapy stuff, and a bunch of other things like teaching (schools) that you gain while doing the degree. I cant see myself getting all that from going out with a club, and I sure as heck would rether practical experiences rather than doing a few degrees in different areas, just so I can get the same job opportunities. I know for me Ive learnt way more than if I was just kayaking all the time, thats what Im after, not just the practical stuff.
peace

scux0's picture

yes its about the money but i would rather spend the $$$$ and hang out with some real cool ppl and get the skills from some of the best instructors the nz rather than someone who is just a weekend warrior in the clib sceen
thanks for ur time

sam6's picture

How many outdoor recreation courses include the price of NZOIA certification in there fees? Isn't this the highest level of qalification in N.Z. We all know the requirements for this, general experience and experience instructing groups. I think the best bet is to spend your course fees on good gear and go out and get the experience yourself through clubs, one off courses ie. nz kayak school, and mates and then volunteer your services to clubs, schools and other instituions to get your instructing hours up to NZOIA standard, and then the world is your oyster.

dr.funkenstein's picture

Yeah Grasscutter you have a point about institutions raising funds from the very competitive student Dollar, which is the result of market driven education. Although do you think that if someone is willing to complete a degree in outdoor recreation it shows a certain level of comittment to the industry? It will give their career longievity and will mean that they will be able to handle the administrative duties involved in centre management and get access to a post graduate diploma in teaching, if so desired.
I guess students get a practical education in a similar way to say someone who does a nursing degree, or a teaching degree.
What do the degree students think? Do you feel like you're getting deeper into the industry as a result of your degree training?? Making better relationships with some of the fantastic staff at Ch Ch poly??...What are the benefits?? What do you think of the paper work requirements?? or any other students. I guess you'll be the most competitive in the job market and its a good lifestyle..??
........................

grasscutter's picture

Hmmmm alot to digest.

My two cents worth.

Rec courses are lots of fun and a good but expensive way to get your base skills up. (done 1 year myself)

You can get your skills up to the same level without doing one of these courses. Instead join clubs until you meet enough people to do your own stuff.

Remember that a proliferation of courses have popped up in the last few years. Wonder why...?

Polytechnics are making BIG MONEY from them!!! its all about the money$$$$$

The more they convince us and the industry that it is all about having little certificates the larger the barriers to becoming involved become. i.e. if employers seek certificates then you'd have to do a course that costs far too much. To me that is wrong because people have been doing things just fine for years without certificates.

Basically the degree courses have been generated to make three years worth of money out of students instead of one. But as others have said if you enjoy it then it is all good. Just don't expect to have a massive head start over someone with experience and a bit of common sense

EXPERIENCE, TEACHING ABILITY, SENSIBILITY rule the roost not certificates. Personal Opinion.

Ka kite

brent1's picture

Maybe if you can't do it or have no talent you shoudl not be learning it? Save it for those that are good at it then the level of boating will increase due to losing the drop kicks that seem to come out of these courses? As for these clubs? How good was the management of the Auckland Uni CC weekend at FullJames this year....didn't do there RAMs too well did they? Point incase, leave it to those that know what they are doing and if you don't know....don't pretend!!

ian1's picture

Classic, good old Aoraki. I spent 1 year attending that course, you could say i sort of burnt out in a way and didn't continue.
It had it's good points and bad points. I was a paddla b4 starting the course and found the kayaking sessions a bit tedious mainly because i'm not the most patient learner. But the 3rd year boaters were good bastards and R gorge soon became my second home. The other stuff was pretty cool to learn.
The papers we did, tourism and buisness studies were a bit of a laugh, the flat (3 girls and myself,stoked !!) use to find any excuse not to go, backyard cricket, sick today, it's to sunny to go to class lets have a BBQ etc not many classes were attended but we still somehow gained a pass.
The year after that i did that 6mth raft course in Qtown, it's fairly practical and suited me a lot better, but one huge night on the turps got me a warning,paddling nevis and finally arriving back late from the buller fest saw me departing that course. Not the right attitude to be a raft guide.I thought all raft guides did was push rubber get on the @!#$ and try and score chicks, dammit apparently not.
Saved a bit of cash and went over to the zambezi at 19 got a job within a few days. Ended up staying over there for quite a while, learnt how to raft big water, tandum kayak,taught oaks how to boat and kayak guided, nice warm water as well. Working on rivers will take you to some fairly out of it places and it's a good cash in the hand job when your away. You don't have to push rubber until your 40 or even do it as a job in NZ, raftings an awsome skill to have theres so many countries you can go to doing it. Just dont stick to the cold frosty rivers of NZ.
I dont regret doing a year at Aoraki, Ian logie made me laugh, and qtown the time i was there gave me the basic knowledge of how to push rubber.

barny0's picture

What if you already know how to roll and paddle garde 3??
would that mean its just a big waste of $$$$??

nicki's picture

One persons experience of an outdoor rec course shouldnt put you off from attending that course! i am currently attending aoraki poly and this year has been amazing! my 3rd years have been great, they have gained so much knowledge that they have passed on to us 1st years but not only that they have the skills to be able to pass on that knowledge and have also infected us with their love of the outdoors. the skills they have gained by teaching us 1st years has enabled most of the 3rd years to gain NZOIA quals this year in either rock or alpine or both and some are well on their way for kayak too.
you only get out as much as you put in.
i fully recommend to anyone who wants to do this course to apply, its definately worth while!

clem's picture

what the hell is a weck?? maybe ur not doing the right course? i've nearly completed my 1st year at Timmas and its been absolutely awesome! at the start of the year i had neva been in a kayak but thanx to my brilliant 3rd years (some of whom are absolute kayak gurus) i learnt the basics and how to roll and am now a confident grade 3 paddler. this course has started a love of kayaking and i get out in my personal time, paddling nearly every weekend. the course at Timmas gets in some of nz's true gurus to help intruct and we learn heaps of them. We travel the length of the sth island, murch for paddling, wanaka climbing and many other wicked places. the outdoor rec course at Timmas is definately worth doing and i recommend it to any one wanting some wicked outdoor experiences. go Timmas.

mike9's picture

i agree a 4 year degree does give a better view of the industry and the difference between those who give it a go and those who done like jim here is how the course is viewed and what they want to do with the degree

i think those who dont like the 4 or 3 year degrees or whatever are in it for fun they liked kayaking and figured it would be a great job. they want minimal teaching just so they can hit the river and get paid for it
those people would be better suited to a 6 month course and a simple job taking punters down a river

the other person is someone who thinks further than a couple of years after they qualify someone who realises that theyre not going to be able to guide a raft forever and dont want to find themselves out of a job at 40 with 6th form cert and a lifetime of paddling a rubber ring.

they will do the paper work for the course (thats what stopped a mate at aoraki) and realise there is more to it and will go further in the indusrty tham in the long run.

i know i said that the guy that did the 6 month course could be interviewing you for the job but if that is the case that person is likely to have been in it for the fun and shouldnt have done the longer course. those who graduate from longer courses will more than likely not be applying for a simple raft guide job

i hope that made sence cos right now even im having trouble getting my head round it. so to wrap it up, by no means if you are enjoying your course is it a waste of time people just need to know what to expect from such courses and more importantly need to know what they want from them

cuz's picture

fair enough Mike,
but i think that it is important to acknowlege that their is big a diffennce between guiding and instructing. i have my raft ticket, as i am sure that you are well aware it gives me the ability to take clients down rivers. it does not however give me the ability to instruct other how to guide.
another point, the qualification that you gain doen't fully express the learning being absorbed within such outdoor programmes. there is so much learning to be had from having the chance to listen to others opinions on matters and issues. these courses also offer the ability to analyse past and current issues on contempory practice.
job training is very important for experiential learning (in the holistic sence). hay, even ancient greek philosophers like Aristotle and Plato concurr with your point mike, but hear is a fact of life. you are at the place of employment to complete a job.to get tasks done. learning while you are placed in a job. is strickly associated with completing duties your employer want completed.and other learning outcomes are left up to you to research and gain.
courses however, give you the perfect environment to learn about philosophies about the industry. broadeding your percieptions,your learning, your skills
please don't think of the 3.5 years study as a waste of time. instead think of it as a primary and important step for moving into the industry as well prepared instructors. equipt with a sound knowledge and skill base in areas of expertise.
much respect,
cuz

cuz's picture

bit of respect mate,
you are talking about one of the best kayaking tutors in New Zealand.
my money is on Steve hands down he can keep up with any of our kayak students. Put your personality clashes aside, pick up your bloody lip and your learning will be infinite.

Tutors of Steves callaibre exist to define the determined and focused students and weed out the #$%@.
hears some advice jim, take comments and critism with a pinch of salt. take what you want from the advice given by people.and keep a positive outlook in all situations. hears some valiable advice a mentor in my life one gave me:

every event in life is neutral, it is how you choose react to the event that determins whether it has a positive of negative outcome.
react positive mate.
hears one more for the road. before trying to critize and point out others flaws. critique ones own actions. pointing out others weaknesses is an easy task. pointing out your own weakness is the hard task. dude take up the challange and not the easy way out!

mike9's picture

well from what i see its all well and good to do the course cos thats all it will get you. it seems that you get on the job training and your outdoor course wether it be 4 years or a 6month one does the same thing
granted a 4 year degree gets you experience in all aspects of outdoor work but if your applying for a rafting guide job the guy who did 6 month solid rafting course is just a qualified as you and saved 3.5 years of his life and a hell of a lot of $$ doing it
so yeah the course is a good idesa but keep in mind what you want to do with it if all you want to do is raft save your self 3.5 years and do a 6 month course but if you want to have a wide base of experience and change jobs often mabey a 4 year one is better but by then who knows the rafter may have got his foot in the door 2 years sooner and be interviewing you for the job

will1's picture

Jim wrote:
>
>
> "What about the guy Chapman? Isnít he the nicest
> Instructor you have ever had!?"

But he is one of the best!

jim1's picture

cuz wrote: in regards to eating all the pies, they run rings around most of us. and i would put my money on them beng able to give you an almighty @#$% WOOP!

What about the guy Chapman? Isnít he the nicest Instructor you have ever had!?

cuz's picture

i have read all your comments Jim. from what i can tell, you attended timmas about three years ago and had a bad experience in your first year of study.
like yourself, i had a non-preferable outcome after my first year of study. i however did not choose to make a gross generalization over the intire ourdoor adventure and education in New Zealand, instead i decided to make lemonade out of the lemons that were tossed at me. and relocated my studing to christchurch this year and am so greatful for having the opportunity for the move.and am now reaping the rewards of making the move.

The so-called 'gumbys' that teach me are some of the most respectable individuals in the industry.Holding related degrees, masters and some of highest qulifications in their pursuit of expertise.in regards to eating all the pies, they run rings around most of us. and i would put my money on them beng able to give you an almighty @#$% WOOP!
your statement on the validility of these forms of programmes is nieve to say the least. i think that you need to broaden you perspectives and have a look in to the big picture concept. if these courses did not exist, then how would industry standards be maintained?. like all the other industries in the world their needs to be a governing body to maintain a respectable benchmark of standard and quality.
you speak as if you can get a job in the industry without relevant qualifications. this may have been the case 20 years ago, but buddy we're in a changing world where pre-requisite qualifications are a nessisity before you can even get a foot through the door. whether we like it or not, it's a fact of life. you also need to take note that their is a big difference between instructing clients and guiding them.
as for your remark on a retard on p being able to pass these courses, i think that you need to pull your head out of your @#$% and take a big sniff of the flowers of realism

all this aside mate don't let a bad experience affect you. take it on the chin, stand up and smile back. for if it doesn't kill you it can only make stronger

kia kaha and good luck for what life has ahead.

cuz.

jim1's picture

Bold Statement Steve, theres dudes with sharp skills in those clubs. My head must be stuck up my ar*e big time steve, i've met a lot of guys from NZ and overseas that have rocked up to companies applied for river jobs said they're forfeit pay for a couple of weeks to be trained to the companies standard and have been employed.They all have previous experience/firstaid/swiftwater but none ever attended any polytec institution.But then again Maybe these companies aren't respectable enough for you to even think about working for.
sorted

steve5's picture

Buddy, stop dreaming. If you think any respectable outdoor company will hire you because you did a couple of years with some university club you need to pull your head out of your @!#$.

You can't compare that to even one year in an institution that trains specifically for the industry with some of the top instructors in the country, who have done the miles and have the experience.

Sort it out.

jim1's picture

Right i see

enjoying.it's picture

I think it might be easier for your obviuosly hugely obese instructor to drive down the river bank on a mobility scooter with a load hailer.

Like others have already said, you can only get out what you are willing to get out. Try learning engineering at a uni where half of your lecturers dont have english as a first language. You can either do your own learning and then hit them up one on one or give up.

If I was after some one to drive me I would back in with mum and dad and go back to school.

jim1's picture

Eating too many pies is not really relavent, because danyon loaders coach was overweight ?
Do you want to be paddling down a river as an instructor or yelling commands from the bank.
I would have thought fitness would be right up there as one of the most relevant issues on a rec course.

dude's picture

Coaching is different from instructing dude?

enjoying.it's picture

Eating too many pies is not really relavent.

Did you see Danyon Loader's swimming coach? He may not be the best shape of his life but no one can deny that Danyon swam fast.

dan6's picture

believe me, people do fail outdoor ed courses...of course it depends on which course your doing. you wont get a degree by sending $2.95 to the Weetbix factory! where as doing a certificate is usually very practical based and therefore if you can paddle or climb or whateva to a certain level then you'll (generally) pass.

if you don't do the work then you won't pass, its a pretty easy concept to get your head around.

having quals definately aren't the "be all and end all", but they certainly do help in todays world. quals should be seen as complimentary to the personal traits of a person. only a dumbass company is gonna hire you if you have a poor work ethic and prefer to sit on your @!#$ & check out the talent than get in and get your hands dirty.

anyway, just my thoughts on the topic....later.

jim1's picture

Just because some 'wicked 3rd year dudes' can teach you to kayak, climb, etc. in 3 years or two doesn't mean you can go and get a job as a guide or insructor either.
Hulk have you heard of the OUCC or UCCC, thats one way of getting into boating, Join a club, i'm sure theres others for climbing etc. You don't need any gear,experience you get taught by the more senior members and it's good times to be had by all.

hulk's picture

so, if i really want to work in the outdoors but haven't had much experience and don't know anybody in the industry, how do i get the skills i need to become an instructor, guide or whatever ?

Just because some 'wicked experienced dudes' can teach you to kayak, climb, etc. in a week or two doesn't mean you can go and get a job as a guide or insructor.

These polytech courses give you the resouces and guidance to learn how to teach not just to learn how to kayak or climb etc. but it's what you make of the opportunity you have, if you go to tech each day and be a dumbass you'll be a dumbass thirdyear and end up a dumbass instructor but if you go hard you learn heaps and come out with awesome skills.

go chch

brian.spilner's picture

Interesting

sunspots.kayak.shop's picture

Since when was NZOIA accepted in the industry (kayaking)?

There was an interesting article in the last issue of wilderness magazine? about outdoor rec courses in NZ you should have a read.

Most of the students from those courses do not go into the outdoor industry.
Also interesting to me was the survey of employers in regards to the things they look for in a new employee.
Qualifications did not even get a look in!!!!!!

I have worked in the kayak industry for more than 15 years and i have never been asked by an employer if i hold NZOIA.
I have been hiring and firing kayak instructors for the last 6 years and i do not hire NZOIA kayak instructors.
Employees from outdoor rec courses i have employed (from different courses) have the worst work ethic and experience but normaly think they are gods gift to kayaking. Some have good people skills and teaching is not bad if they can actually make it to the river.

river.action.nz's picture

Hey Jim,

Have you tried getting in on the NZOIA Quals??? When you want to get into a course you should be aware what quals you will ultimatley end up with and how these will carry you into the industry. Did you ask if you would be trained by industry accepted qiudelines? Or if all your "Instructors" would be qualified or of a skill level that would be accepted by those within the industy. I know many third years that have more then enough skill to instruct a 1st year in the basics of Kayaking. But in saying that they should always be supervised by an industry pro. I think that you may have been given a bad first experience which is a shame. Did you relay your observations and complaints to your course provider??? Keep up the study but just be wary of what you will be paying 4 in the future.

timmy's picture

weird I know people who love that course, still I guess that line of study is not for everyone, some get heaps out of it others dont fact of life really, some people love law and law school It wouldnt even cross my mind to go any where near stuff like that. Its all about the love!

jim1's picture

TIMMA'S